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RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:39:00 GMT

There are certain systems that have their own dedicated node due to the heavy traffic, Jita is probably the main one. So they do balance the load somewhat. As far as I know there are 420 cpu cores in the cluster, some are dedicated to some areas, and if I remember correctly CCP have been known to add nodes to 'reinforce' areas that see unexpected high traffic. I also seem to remember reading that the eve cluster was in the top 500 supercomputer list once.

Edit:-

And one of the main attractions is the single server concept, everyone in game in a single persistent universe.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:14:38 GMT

I'm surprised they haven't looked at spreading areas over a few servers. It'd be much more efficient

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:20:26 GMT

Woot!!

Eve-Online gets a mention :) Even screenshots! (very old ones, maybe 3-4 years out of date)

Anyway, I said I would knock summat up and try to explain Eve so here it is...

In the world of MMORPG there is an 800lb gorilla called 'World of Warcraft' all others seems to be tipping a hat towards this monster of a game, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

However there are a few games out there that challenge that view, and do things differently, one of these is Eve-Online produced by independent outfit CCP based in Iceland.

It has a number of things to make it stand out from the crowd, it's the largest single shard game server in the world, that means all players are connected to the same server, the record for simultaneous players at once is over 40k! each player can interact with every other in the same persistent virtual world. The server hardware is based in London, and is amongst the largest clusters of computers running a single game in the world, it uses solid state disks (and has done for a few years) currently CCP are looking to implement infinband technology to the server cluster.

[June 2008 - Ongoing] Infiniband Internal Test Cluster is live, development ongoing

[June 2008 - Ongoing] Cisco virtualisation project underway (speeds up Eve website)

[September 2007] 420 CPU cores housed in IBM X-SERIES 3950 and BladeCenter servers

[August 2007] CCP has deployed a fourth RamSan-400 taking SSD capacity to 256GB

[July 2007] Database upgraded to Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Enterprise SP2

[July 2007] Core engine upgrade to Python 2.5 with Stackless 3.1

[March 2007] CCP confirms they are moving everything to a 64 bit architecture

[November 2006] Third RamSan-400 deployed, cluster confirmed at 168 nodes.

[March 2006] Second RamSan-400 deployed

[October 2005] First RamSan-400 deployed

One major way in which Eve is different, is the skill training. In most games earning skill points (or experience points) means doing a task, sometimes repeating that task many times hence the more you play the more skill points you earn. Eve does away with that, instead skills are real-time based. You can train a skill simply by obtaining the appropriate skill-book, and 'training' it. You then learn the skill over time regardless of wether you are playing or not, it even trains while you sleep. All skills have 5 levels, and the steps between levels is roughly exponential meaning it may only take a few minutes to train to level 1, but many days to get to level 5. This method of gaining skills can be a blessing for those not willing to spend hours 'grinding' or 'levelling' it can also cause headaches when skills finish training at odd times, I must admit to setting my alarm clock to get up in the middle of the night to change skills.

Another thing that differentiates Eve from other games is the economy, no not the politician with the briefcase who lives at No.11... the in-game economy. Almost every item in the game has been produced by a player, and then sold on the market for the best price. This player driven economy has attracted quite a lot of attention in the economics field, there are university graduates studying this economy for research. CCP also employ a full-time economist to look after the game and try to avert any potential economic disasters. If you like the complexity of a large and active market economy, and have the patience, you can earn plenty of isk (Inter-Stellar-Kredits) just trading on the market. Indeed some critics of Eve-Online call it a space based spredsheet.

A far more simple explanation of Eve gameplay is that it's a like Elite for the BBC micro, brought up-to-date. A game set in space, you fly a spaceship from one solar system to another and can 'dock' at various space stations, just like Elite, you can buy goods, transport them and sell the for a profit. You can also fit guns to your ship and kill some NPC pirates, again very similar to Elite. The more you earn the better ship and fittings you can buy. So if Elite was a fondly remembered game, Eve might just be the game for you.

Eve-Online is a very complex game, it's what's called a sandbox game, there is no set path to follow, players are free to do whatever the game allows. This can lead to some players feeling a bit lost and without direction. The game has plenty of paths to follow, the real beauty is that you are not locked into that path, if you find after playing for a while that mining is not for you, it's easy to re-fit your ship for combat and become a combat pilot, or fit cargo bays and be a freight hauler.

Eve is on many levels, PvP (player vs. player). From the pirate players who waits for a lone cargo ship to pass by, to the huge fleet battles that can alter the system ownership, to the market PvP where cutthroat deals can make or break a players wallet. PvP is non-consensual, you could be minding your own business hauling goods through high security space and suddenly be attacked by a fleet of suicide pirate ships, these ships don't last long under the withering fire of Concord, but long enough to destroy your ship and liberate the cargo. Venturing into low-sec areas you often come across a pirate blockade only too willing to convert your ship into a wreck. PvP can be harsh, I remember my first ship loss to another player, I was only a month or so into the game and didn't check the autopilot route, it took me through some dangerous systems, my ship lasted mere seconds, I was gutted and almost quit the game in disgust having lost everything in an instant. Because PvP is so brutal, there are ways for the harmless industrialist to get even with the combat pilots, they can hire player mercenaries who will fight for a fee, yet another path for a player to follow.

The Eve universe consists of over 5000 solar systems, these systems can contain many space stations, or none at all, they can contain other objects such as asteroid fields which can be mined for ore, planets, moons you can mine. The central part of this universe is often called high-sec or high security. High-sec has a security rating of 0.5 to 1.0 systems with within this band are patrolled by 'Concord' who are NPCs responsible for upholding the law. The rest of the universe is 0.0 to 0.4 where the law is not present in such numbers, and players can fire upon others without suffering the wrath of Concord, systems with a rating of 0.1 to 0.4 do have a limited amount of security, for example stations and stargates often have computer controlled sentry guns that will fire upon 'criminals' but the damage they do is limited. 0.0 space is completely security free, and players can gain 'ownership' and reap the benefits. 0.0 space has high-end asteroid belts, valuable moons, NPC's that carry a high bounty, the rewards can be high but the risk is great. In high-sec space you cannot fire upon another players ship unless certain criteria are met, doing so will result in the Concord blowing you to bits, not a pleasant experience. This can be avoided by declaring war upon the opposing corporation, then Concord will not interfere.

This brings me to Corporations. These are groups of like minded players similar to guilds in other games. Each corp has a CEO, directors and corporate assets, a tax rate for members and a whole bunch of other stuff. There are advantages to belonging to a player controlled corp. The disadvantage it that competing corporations can declare war on each other, which means they can shoot each other no matter where in the universe. War costs money, a fee has to be paid by the corp declaring war each week, this limits the number of wars a corp can have active. Corporations can band together in an alliance, a formal agreement of co-operation. Alliances can be quite large and have 1000's of members. In the lawless space, alliances hold sway over great numbers of systems, and inter alliance warfare is common.

It's out here in the 0.0 security systems that the huge battles take place. Sometimes the number of players involved can run into the hundreds, these fleet battles are an awesome sight, they can also be rather disappointing as the number of players in the field increases, so does the amount of data you PC needs from the servers, and there is obviously bandwidth issues which can cause the screen to be sluggish, often called 'lag' and is the most frustrating thing in these engagements.

Other activities a player can engage in are numerous. You could become a miner, seeking out asteroid belts and mining the ore, which in turn can be processed into minerals, this can then be turned into items for sale on the market. Every ship and piece of equipment on the market has been made by a player, due to the PvP aspect, the demand for new ships and equipment remains high. You could become a scientist, involved in the research of 'blueprints' the other item required to build something. Blueprints can be researched to improve the efficiency and maximising productivity, more advanced research can produce a variant of the blueprint which will enable the manufacture of expensive 'T2' equipment or ships. T2 means 2nd tier technology, and is usually far superior to plain T1 variants. Players can also make contracts, so you could earn a living just hauling goods for other players from place to place. You could run 'missions' for an NPC 'agent' similar to quests in other games, these missions increase your 'standings' and lead to better missions with greater rewards. The downside is that you standing towards the opposing faction decrease, if they fall too low, you can be attacked by the hostile NPC's when travelling in their space.

Factions and standings were relatively unimportant, until now. With the introduction of the new expansion "Empyrean Age", faction warfare is the next big thing for Eve, you can align yourself to a faction and fight on their behalf against other players earning rewards and ranks etc. It also allows PvP on a smaller scale, with restrictions on ship size etc. So far the general consensus is the expansion is a huge success.

There are a few criticisms of Eve, which should be mentioned for a better picture of the game.

[u]The learning curve.[/u]
To say this is steep is an understatement, it's more of a cliff and can be baffling to a new player. CCP have done a lot of development on the new player experience, and the tutorials are much better than they were. Even so, it helps if you have a more experienced friend to help you out with the many questions.

[u]The complexity of the game.[/u]
Over 5000 solar systems, 200 different ships, each with different roles, 1000's of items from guns, to consumer goods for trade, ammunition to tourists. An overwhelming array of ship fitting options, you can turn a ship into a cargo vessel, a warship, a support ship, a mining platform... eventually your head will spin.

[u]The sandbox.[/u]
Once you finish the tutorial, you are free to do what you wish and faced with this is a bit like a kid in a candy store, you want it all, now! the reality bites as you realise that to fly that asteroid stripping mining barge will take months to train for. Most players end up doing a little of everything, only a few are single minded enough to train for one specific task.

[u]The lag.[/u]
Sometimes in a busy system there can be 500 players or more, this makes some tasks rather slow as the server trys to keep up with the thousands of interactions happening at once. In the system of Jita, for example, hitting the undock button to launch your ship into space can take minutes to actually display, leaving you looking at a black screen and wondering if the game has crashed.
In large fleet battles, you can 'warp' to the battle area and see your screen freeze as there are hundreds of objects to display, frame rates can drop to 1-2 frames per second or worse. You can often be killed before you realise what's happening.

[u]The PvP[/u]
This aspect of the game is unlike most others. You can be attacked anywhere, even in the safest system (although very rare). PvP is non-consensual, so if you don't want to fight, the only way to remain safe is to never undock from a station. PvP in eve is harsh. Imagine having played for a couple of weeks and can now afford to get a shiny new ship, this ship has taken all your efforts to acquire, hours and hours of game-time, and it can be destroyed in moments by another player, if you are really unlucky, your escape pod can also be destroyed and you may lose that last week of training as your 'clone' may not be up-to-date. Scale that up as you get bigger ships, imagine losing a ship that's taken months to get and cost billions of isk, people get upset. That said however, the adrenaline rush from your first PvP combat is orders of magnitude greater than any FPS, the euphoria if you win, or the crushing feeling of defeat.

Eve has it all. (apart from full body avatars that move around the world, that's coming soon©).

So if you like the idea of Eve and have a couple of weeks free, download the game and sign up for the 2 week trial.

RevJim

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:48:51 GMT

[quote][b]MartenReed (20/05/2008)[/b][hr]I don't kick up a fuss that WoW is rarely mentioned, except for info on the new expansion ;)[/quote]

I really hope that was sarcasm, WoW is mentioned in every edition. It is the largest mmo out there, well largest in subscribers, Eve is the largest single server mmo.

As for Kevin doing the 14 day trial, hope you enjoy it but the trial accounts are a little nerfed, to stop the alt abuse (you could create a number of disposable accounts to suicide high value ships).

It seems the new expansion has attracted a 'lot' of players into the new content, I was watching battles with over 100 players on each side the other night, so many numbers has is downside, the framerate drops to a slideshow :(

Rev

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

K-writer — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:25:53 GMT

Just a quick update on this - EVE Online and the Empyrean Age piece will be appearing shortly in Gaming.

...I may or may not have spent last night mining and carrying out missions on a 14-day free trial....possibly. :cool:

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Ron of the Undead — Wed, 21 May 2008 14:10:10 GMT

I'll probably end up checking EVE out again once the new patch comes. It's been a long time since I poked at it.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

andydods — Tue, 20 May 2008 16:22:06 GMT

Frequently :D

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

ricedg — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:43:02 GMT

You haven't mentioned Colossal Cave for decades, but do I complain?

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:08:28 GMT

True Sarah, but I doubt that a whole article would be of any real benefit, or interest to the readers. One comparing MMOs would probably be much better. It'd have more of a focus on Eve anyways.

I don't kick up a fuss that WoW is rarely mentioned, except for info on the new expansion ;)

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

K-writer — Tue, 20 May 2008 10:34:00 GMT

[quote][b]Rev667 (19/05/2008)[/b][hr]Thanks for the reply :)

...there is a major expansion due this summer, as always it's a free expansion which introduces factional warfare... something that has been promised for a couple of years...

[/quote]

I'll keep my eyes peeled for that one, and put it on my 'keeping tabs on' list :)

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Sarah of the Dead — Tue, 20 May 2008 09:48:27 GMT

[quote][b]MartenReed (19/05/2008)[/b][hr]Or Tippon, expand that for a few MMO games.

I doubt a whole article on just one game would get printed, but as MMOs are getting more prevalent, a summary of the main ones would be good.
It'd probably be like:
WoW, GW, Eve, Everquest 1/2, LotR, Runescape and maybe one or two more?[/quote]

Wasn't that how this complaint came about anyway - because EVE Online was only mentioned in passing in an article in issue 1004? :P

I know at least one sometime Micro Mart writer plays EVE: [url]http://www.denofgeek.com/games/1644/eve_online_a_safe_haven_for_warcraft_refugees.html[/url]

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Mon, 19 May 2008 23:08:43 GMT

Thanks for the reply :)

I'm sure Eve hasn't been truly ignored, but there is a major expansion due this summer, as always it's a free expansion which introduces factional warfare... something that has been promised for a couple of years.

I might try to write a small piece about Eve, but being a veteran I suspect it would be a mystery to someone not familiar with the game, I might try to avoid phrases like "If you need a MAPC to increase grid, then training AWU will help get those neuts online, and don't forget the meta modules can reduce CPU and grid."

As for the learning curve....

[url=http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1751/learningcurvbd1.jpg]Eve learning curve[/url]

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Mon, 19 May 2008 16:23:27 GMT

Or Tippon, expand that for a few MMO games.

I doubt a whole article on just one game would get printed, but as MMOs are getting more prevalent, a summary of the main ones would be good.
It'd probably be like:
WoW, GW, Eve, Everquest 1/2, LotR, Runescape and maybe one or two more?

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Tippon — Mon, 19 May 2008 14:39:58 GMT

Rev, it's clearly something you feel quite strongly about, and Eve's been around long enough for many gamers to not know much about it anymore, so why not put together an article and submit it to the mag?

Maybe a basic overview of the game and how it has progressed since launch?

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

K-writer — Mon, 19 May 2008 10:48:32 GMT

Hi Rev,

Firstly let me apologise for taking a little while to respond, I've had a longer than usual time away from the office this weekend.

I don't want to get too deeply involved in opinions of the game, except to say that EVE Online clearly dwells high in the echelons of MMOs for its achievements. I would say however, that EVE Online has not been purposely overlooked in Gaming Weekly or MM, though I do acknowledge that it receives less coverage than more recent titles.

For my part, much of this is to do with keeping Gaming Weekly up to date, and the news available. Micro Mart is not primarily a gaming magazine, and space is limited. I do try to cram as much in as possible every week, and so inevitably I try to get as much news about the latest games and developments in the industry. Having said that, I do try to note any significant news, and so did mention EVE online in the 'Sorry!' boxout in issue 995, commenting on Reynir Hardason's belief the game could last half a century. At the time I commented, and still say, that it would be a fantastic achievment and well-deserved. And I think that sums up my thoughts on the universe and the community.

Of course, an interesting point on the two-week free trial, and something I could do well to mention in the section...perhaps even take a look myself and report back :cool:

Finaly, I would say fear not, the magazine as a whole has nothing against the game (of course each writer's gaming choices are their own) and when it comes to the gaming section, I hold no grudge against EVE.

I hope this allays some fears Rev, and as always, your feedback is greatly appreciated

Kevin :)

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

oldphart — Mon, 19 May 2008 01:00:19 GMT

In the end. people, it is only a game.

Why not try going out for a walk in the evening and listen to the songbirds giving it their all?;)

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Mon, 19 May 2008 00:16:23 GMT

Starcraft.

One off payment, still being patched and it's one of the most widely used games in Asian pro-gaming.

But, wait until Starcraft 2 IMHO.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

columbo77 — Sun, 18 May 2008 22:33:41 GMT

So whats best Starcraft or Eve. I am playing the 14 day trial of Eve now.

Columbo

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Sun, 18 May 2008 19:45:34 GMT

You'll be lucky to find Starcraft in a store, but the best place to look is Game's 2 for £15 range. If they have it, it will be there.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Sun, 18 May 2008 09:42:54 GMT

[quote][b]MartenReed (17/05/2008)[/b][hr]
Get it, and you won't regret it. It's one of the hardest games I've played, but I still love it.

And Eve-Online... Been meaning to try it, just never got around to it. I like the idea of one Server, but I can't even begin to imagine how large it is!
[/quote]

I will look for Starcraft next time I'm in the store.

Eve is very very large, it runs on a cluster of blade-servers with ramsan disks, the developers release tech info about hardware upgrades and stuff.

[quote]The game runs on a cluster featuring dual-processor 64-bit AMD Opteron-based IBM BladeCenter LS20 blade servers with additional enhancements to the clusters internet backbone. The database servers don't use traditional hard drives but instead Solid State Disks (SSD) which can handle over 400,000 random I/Os per second.[/quote]

Because it's a sandbox game, and so large it can be a little overwhelming for a new player, there is no set path, you can do almost anything the game mechanics allow from sitting in a station playing the market to being a pirate ransoming other players, to being an industrialist, a miner, a fighter, a scientist inventing new tecnology, to being a leader of an alliance controlling hundreds of systems.

Be warned the learning curve is steep, but once you grasp the basics and get involved with others it's an awesome game.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Sun, 18 May 2008 08:30:55 GMT

Nah, I was never a fan of the sidebar..

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Basil — Sat, 17 May 2008 18:35:07 GMT

[quote][b]MartenReed (17/05/2008)[/b][hr]...the HUD is now accepted as the standard style for RTS games since. It's been like it in everything from Total War upto Supreme Commander.[/quote]

Sidebar FTW, especially nice when using a widescreen display.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Sat, 17 May 2008 14:44:27 GMT

I'm sorry, but the only visual similarity between Command & Conquer and Starcraft is the Isometric view on the units.
The HUD, the units... They all look so different, and the HUD is now accepted as the standard style for RTS games since. It's been like it in everything from Total War upto Supreme Commander.
Starcraft, next to Dune II, stands as the single most influential RTS ever.
Your post sounded as if you were passing it off as some sort of... cheap rubbish...

Get it, and you won't regret it. It's one of the hardest games I've played, but I still love it.

And Eve-Online... Been meaning to try it, just never got around to it. I like the idea of one Server, but I can't even begin to imagine how large it is!

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Basil — Sat, 17 May 2008 10:53:39 GMT

[quote][b]Rev667 (17/05/2008)[/b][hr]
I checked out 'Starcraft' and found a game that looked like Command and Conquer?
[/quote]

That's the one, "space-themed RTS."
It wasn't really compared to EVE, just that EVE was a MMO version of the game.
The rest of the comments were just trying to get you to play a great game :D

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Sat, 17 May 2008 10:04:33 GMT

I think I must have something wrong.

I checked out 'Starcraft' and found a game that looked like Command and Conquer?

You must mean a different Starcraft surely?

As a comparison to Eve, that's like saying Asteroids is better than Elite (in the vector graphics games).

My Google-Fu must be weak.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Ron of the Undead — Fri, 16 May 2008 19:26:36 GMT

[quote]BTW: I re-read the piece and you only mention the fact you can buy gametime with ingame currency, when the biggest difference is the real-time training model, you train skills in real-time regardless of whether you are playing the game or sleeping. No grinding for experience points.[/quote]

Well no, but that's other stuff I like about EVE. So you don't think I just totally hate the game (it's a bit dry for me, but fun). I thought I'd actually mentioned it in the piece, too, but I might have cut that in the editing process.

And yes, you should've checked Starcraft out by now. The fact that you've never heard of the biggest space-themed RTS is absolutely staggering. It's a great game.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:53:57 GMT

double post, oops

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:51:38 GMT

[quote][b]MartenReed (16/05/2008)[/b][hr]"Check Starcraft" Dude, where have you been the past 10 years?!

Eve-Online was mentioned in this month's PC Gamer as one of the writer's least liked game.

Plus, remember that MM is *not* a gaming orientated magazine, although it's mentioned from time to time. This means the opinions on a game are from a much smaller user base, and this means a negative opinion can oft be regarded as the norm...[/quote]

Er, I've been playing Eve :D

Isn't PC Gamer the one that ran the 4 page spread on the "Great War"?

Edit... Yep, PC Gamer ran a very large, 8 pages, feature covering the 'Great Galactic War of Eve-Online' May2008 edition.

Rev

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:43:55 GMT

[quote][b]Drezha (16/05/2008)[/b][hr]EVE's good. I got fairly addicted to it a while ago but gave up on it.

Not really seen it mentioned in bad light in MM.[/quote]

I haven't seen it mentioned at all, apart from the recent feature by Ron. That's my point.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:41:20 GMT

[url=http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/05/eve_online_celebrates_five_years_with_a_surprise-2.html]http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/05/eve_online_celebrates_five_years_with_a_surprise-2.html[/url]

The above link has a nice timeline and overall view of eve.

I hope that Micromart does mention Eve occasionally in their 'Gaming Weekly' column.

Perhaps I can tempt you and the micromart team to try the 2 week free trial :)

An interesting thing is that because you can buy gametime for in-game money and real money there is a rudimentary exchange rate, I remember reading someone worked out the biggest spaceship you can fly is worth approx 40,000 dollars!

Imagine spending a year to train for it, another year or more for you and your friends to raise the funds/materials then getting it blown up in a few minutes, Eve can be harsh.

Rev

BTW: I re-read the piece and you only mention the fact you can buy gametime with ingame currency, when the biggest difference is the real-time training model, you train skills in real-time regardless of whether you are playing the game or sleeping. No grinding for experience points.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Drezha — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:38:15 GMT

EVE's good. I got fairly addicted to it a while ago but gave up on it.

Not really seen it mentioned in bad light in MM.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

MartenReed — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:16:10 GMT

"Check Starcraft" Dude, where have you been the past 10 years?!

Eve-Online was mentioned in this month's PC Gamer as one of the writer's least liked game.

Plus, remember that MM is *not* a gaming orientated magazine, although it's mentioned from time to time. This means the opinions on a game are from a much smaller user base, and this means a negative opinion can oft be regarded as the norm...

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Ron of the Undead — Fri, 16 May 2008 17:43:55 GMT

Wikipedia has it at 220,000, with a high of 45k. There's also more than one server, since the game expanded to China.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Fri, 16 May 2008 16:48:41 GMT

I like Eve-Online (been playing for about 3 years) because it reminds me of Elite on the Spectrum, only brought up to date.

The 30k players are actually live players online at the same time... the numbers for subscribed player base is over 300,000 I believe.

Starcraft, might have to check that out.

Nope you don't really put Eve down, but it is a very popular game and it was just your article that pushed me into posting. Micromart Gaming column has (iirc) never even mentioned Eve-Online, while expounding the virtues of other obscure mmorpg games, that's why I suspect your magazine has a downer about Eve.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Ron of the Undead — Fri, 16 May 2008 16:35:52 GMT

If you'd read the article again, you'll see I was praising EVE for its inventive reward for players (in this case, using in-game credits to pay for subscription fees, but I love the player advancement system as well), not slagging off on it. Space is at a premium, and I couldn't think of a better description for EVE Online. But yes, you could easily describe WoW as a punt gnomes and talk to fairies game, because that's essentially what it is (well, there aren't fairies and WoW isn't very pretty compared to the actual Middle Earth simulator LotRO, but I take your point).

I get what EVE is; it's like a MMO version of Starcraft. I like EVE, despite the fact it's hard to bond with a spaceship, and the player economy is fascinating to me, but I couldn't spend half the article discussing a game that 30k people might play on a good day and neglect the games plural that have active player bases over 100k.

I've got nothing against your game of choice, but feel free to buy multiple copies of the magazine for all your friends so you can point out to them what a jackass I am.

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

columbo77 — Fri, 16 May 2008 15:20:59 GMT

I'm not much of a gamer really but I like the sound of that game, played a game like that on the Amiga when I was a kid, I can never remember the name!:D

RE: What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

bigdaddy — Fri, 16 May 2008 15:09:53 GMT

Welcome to the Madhouse.:D:D
I'm not a gamer,so can't comment on your post, but I'm sure the gamers in our midst will have a lot to say.

What have you guys got against Eve-Online?

Rev667 — Fri, 16 May 2008 15:04:53 GMT

I buy and read Micromart every week, a great read and source of pricing info for that 'dream' PC I one day will build.

Each week I look forward to the gaming section, which keeps me up-to-date and sometimes a source of amusement.

This month there's a big 'feature' about MMORPG games, obviously World of Warcraft is heavily mentioned, and a bunch of other games (some of which I've never heard of tbh) and a small mention of Eve-Online, referred to as a space trading/combat sim.

In the same spirit, can I describe WoW as the beat up gnomes and talk to fairies sim?

I'm sorry, it appears you are going out of your way to avoid mentioning Eve in you magazine? Why is this? Perhaps you were killed off when you attempted to play and so have a bad opinion of the game?

Eve-online is the largest MMORPG out there, considering that WoW (and the rest) use a sharded server network, WoW may have more players overall, but spread over hundreds of servers. Eve is a single server persistent universe, all players play on the same server, peaking at about 30,000+ on a Sunday evening. Every player can interact with any other player, no need to swap servers or agree on which servers to meet up with friends.

Describing it as a space trading/combat sim is rather understating the case. Eve does have trading, indeed CCP the developers employ a full time economist to study the eve economy as it's almost entirely player driven, no other MMORPG has such a rich economy. Combat, oh my, where do I start. Eve has combat, from the newer player in his small ship shooting computer controlled drones, right up to fleet battles involving hundreds of players in all sizes of ships fighting to control vast expanses of the huge universe (some 5500 solar systems). The scale of these wars cannot compare to a raid on WoW lasting a number of hours, one of the largest wars in Eve (BoB vs Goons) has been ongoing for years! with systems swapping ownership on a daily basis, the number of players involved numbers in the thousands.

If Eve is 'just' a space trading/combat game, then WoW is just a very pretty middle-earth sim.

One big problem with Eve-Online is the learning curve, it's more of a cliff. CCP are trying to improve the new player experience.

Prove me wrong and mention Eve-Online occasionally in your gaming columns.

Rev667