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RE: Nividia in trouble

JamesW — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:40:40 GMT

My guess is that it won't matter much - the DX API will specify all the physics functions available, while the device drivers and hardware will obligingly provide them, and be optimised for that. MS will take control of functionality, exactly as they did with graphics.

RE: Nividia in trouble

MartenReed — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:07:20 GMT

Havok FTW.

RE: Nividia in trouble

JamesW — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:07:53 GMT

In my opinion, there's no prospect yet of MS APIs being in any trouble, or of the demise of separate GPUs in gaming PCs.

Cramming more functions onto one die is certainly a trend, mainly because of mobile devices like laptops, phones, GPS receivers etc, but these won't satisfy the requirement for parallel processing that can only be met by big, hot GPUs. Physics will only make off-die GPUs more vital.

There are independent APIs for physics processing on GPUs at this stage, but MS (last time I looked) were planning to include a physics API in DX11, which would relegate PhysX etc to the status of device driver. DX10.x isn't languishing, because PC games developers still rely on it. The only real hope for independent graphics or physics APIs is in the trend for platform independent game development (PC/PS3/XBox etc), which may make it possible to abandon DX on the PC, assuming a decent alternative was available.

RE: Nividia in trouble

FreakShow! — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:58:40 GMT

Nvidia have announced a new card to be released Q1 '09.

The big difference is it will use GDDR5 (coupled with a 512-bit bus maybe?) and use DX10.1, so ATI made the right decision in that. I had read that DX11 was going to be soon, but clearly not that soon.

[url]http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=297022[/url]

As to the claims of double performance, that seems to be said about everything.

RE: Nividia in trouble

Tom Morton — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:32:54 GMT

yeh it's going to be fun times indeed!

RE: Nividia in trouble

Teafie — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:22:20 GMT

I agree with you tom this current strain of GPU's are nothing more than the dying fly.

Even if they break all benchmarks, this current way of addressing is dead.

A good pointer as to what is happening is the development of indipendent APi's.

Theres gonna be alot at stake in the next 2 years and who dares wins.

It will be funny to to see the APi wars, Microsoft could be blown out of the water with some of the stuff being developed by ATi and Intel. ATi especially.

RE: Nividia in trouble

Tom Morton — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:58:53 GMT

This is why the inquirer is a load of rubbish :)

Fortunately such intelligent journals, like the IET's many pamphlets, have the real picture.

The "material" in question is a tweaked doped silicon material used in parts of the die. Don't think this is a Nvidia only problem. ATI used to use it as much (in fact they made it) - though in smaller quantities in their older chips; hence no problem. ATI are in denial though: I'm not 100% sure how long ago Nvidia stopped using it but ATI are STILL using the stuff - the 3xxx series cards have enough in to warrant worry about problems later (big problems) and those definitely weren't in production when Nvidia first announced a possible problem.....

Basically because dev times are so fast they can't test these new materials: this one can break down after long periods of high heat. Oops :(

As far as I can make out Nvidia have given up on this generation of hardware. There are rumors of a codename called "phantom" and even bigger gossip of a major Intel/Nvidia deal. I reckon they are pushing all out for the next gen incorporated multipurpose cores (eg gpu/cpu/physics on one chip).

Bear in mind this stuff was old news a couple of months ago.. :) I highly recommend the IET's computing and Technology journal. It's excellent for staying about a 2 months or more head of the *regular* tech news places.

RE: Nividia in trouble

MartenReed — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:15:55 GMT

[quote][b]Basil (03/07/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]MartenReed (03/07/2008)[/b][hr]
The Tricore Phenom didn't do horrific in CustomPC tests (the "middle" model was the best), but it still wasn't amazing :)[/quote]
I wasn't picking on any of AMD's CPU models in particular but I think the triple core CPU is somewhere AMD can make progress against almighty Intel.[/quote]

I agree Basil, I was merely expanding on your point :)

RE: Nividia in trouble

Basil — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:07:03 GMT

[quote][b]MartenReed (03/07/2008)[/b][hr]
The Tricore Phenom didn't do horrific in CustomPC tests (the "middle" model was the best), but it still wasn't amazing :)[/quote]
I wasn't picking on any of AMD's CPU models in particular but I think the triple core CPU is somewhere AMD can make progress against almighty Intel.

RE: Nividia in trouble

Teafie — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:48:52 GMT

Dont yer just love the way the PC press dont let the name ATi fall from there vocably

Damn right too.:)

RE: Nividia in trouble

MartenReed — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:47:56 GMT

AMD have it sorted on the graphics front.

The HD3xx0 (and so forth) series are making a huge name for themselves, especially against such cards as nVidia's overpriced GTX range.

The Tricore Phenom didn't do horrific in CustomPC tests (the "middle" model was the best), but it still wasn't amazing :)

RE: Nividia in trouble

-Wiz!- — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:37:16 GMT

Must be pretty tough for AMD/ATI taking on two industry giants at once. :) When they are out financed immensely by both. Talk about David and Goliath Goliath! :)

RE: Nividia in trouble

Basil — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:25:49 GMT

[quote][b]nightlight (03/07/2008)[/b][hr]
And all AMD need to do now is sort out it's cpu's.
[/quote]

Well if that's all it has to do....
I really would like AMD to get some competitive chips out, a better tri-core model for example, an Intel monopoly isn't something I look forward too.

RE: Nividia in trouble

nightlight — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:11:37 GMT

Yes, I couldn't agree more.:D:D:D

Just look at that K8 Form, and I quote the first paragraph.

On July 2, 2008, NVIDIA Corporation stated that it would take a $150 million to $200 million charge against cost of revenue to cover anticipated customer warranty, repair, return, replacement and other consequential costs and expenses arising from a weak die/packaging material set in certain versions of our previous generation MCP and GPU products used in notebook systems. All newly manufactured products and all products currently shipping in volume have a different and more robust material set.

And all AMD need to do now is sort out it's cpu's.

RE: Nividia in trouble

-Wiz!- — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:58:20 GMT

Oh how the mighty fall! :D

Nividia in trouble

nightlight — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:49:44 GMT

Have a look at this over at The Inquirer http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/02/nvidia-opens-whoop-ass-itself

They appear to have a product failure, in fact hundres of million dollars worth, cause by defective GPU's dies.

It gets worse the further you read down the page, ATI is causing Nividia serious problems, also Gainward bought Palit, and started making ATI cards instead of Nividia..

And ATI still has other HD4870 cards due out soon.:D