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RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:16:10 GMT

Hi Mad Malc :)
Sorry to be so slow in replying to your post. I have been busy bailing out an older retiree with 1GHz P3 rig problems (blown up PSU whilst struggling with first broadband account and POP3 versus IMAP complications). (She now has a recycled AsrockP4i65G with 2.8GHzP4 and dual-boot XPhome plus Mint5 to have a play with.)
VFM's thread [u]does[/u] merit investigation, so thank you.
Meanwhile, I must amend my opening post to reflect my now preferred use of PartEdMagic2.2 LiveCD on 8cm disc, working well on a great variety of hardware, thanks to its new Linux kernel. Its dual Windows/Linux partition labels are great, its Windows Explorer-like Thunar File Manager allows file rescues between partitions and operating systems, with great screen captures etc. (Unfortunately, its included recent copy of PartImage uses character graphics and is really still a CLI tool, so my use of the Ghost2003 utility diskette in FBI mode for Windows, plus XP-based SelfImage-121 for Linux partition imaging continues.) ;)

(Thread opening post amended 19th July 2008 - hope it makes sense !)

RE: Partition Editing

malc_wright — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:54:39 GMT

Hi Bruce,

I think 'The VFM ( Value for money)'s' post here: [url]http://forum.micromart.co.uk/Topic291557-22-1.aspx[/url].

About using a low resource Gparted Live distro to create a swap space to ease the installation of Linux operating systems onto a low spec PC shows the power of partitioning.

I also wonder if a windows user were to create say a small 'Fat32' partition as C: which is where windows traditionally places its paging file, would that also ease the installation of a windows operating system on a low spec PC?

Partitioning, may have more hidden benefits than first glance suggests.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:38:24 GMT

Hi Mad Malc :)

I find that a separate USB interface hard drive is great for shuffling partition data around, as well as providing a backup archive. ;)

I often still use Windows XP to initialize, create primary or extended partitions and then NTFS format drives.
(For some peculiar reason, Elyssa and 'the Heron' no longer like FAT32 hard 'drives'.)
Left-click [b][i]start[/i][/b], right-click [b][i]MyComputer[/i][/b], left-click [b][i]Manage[/i][/b] quickly allows me to select [b][i]Disk Management[/i][/b].

However, I have taken to using PartEdMagic v2.1, whose LiveCD fits well on to an 8cm disc and defaults to loading into and running from RAM.
(It does now include a copy of PartImage which I am not enough of a Linux Geek to drive, still preferring SelfImage, but that's another story.)
PartEdMagic now uses VisPartEd, and even better than Elyssa's interpretation of Gparted, displays Linux [u]and[/u] Windows partition Label info ! :cool:

RE: Partition Editing

malc_wright — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:18:09 GMT

When I used to use Windows, in order to make more than one partition (the dreaded C: Drive) I would set a smaller partition size on install, then use Windows own disk manager.

When I first dabbled with dual booting Windows, I would resize the Windows C: Drive by using Mandrake 9.0 then aborting the install, leaving empty space in which to install other operating systems which didn't have a partition tool on install, like Red Hat Linux.

The key thing about partitions is to ensure you always have a couple spare, in which to move things around when one partition becomes over full and you need to move stuff off it in order to change partition sizes.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:41:30 GMT

Hi wasbit

It will be sad day when we can't exchange views, that's a way to learn. This forum has confirmed to this old fogey that it's never too late to learn.
On this thread topic I have just learnt that my three preferred versions of Gparted LiveCD don't like a Thinkpad R60 laptop, but the Gutsy or Daryna embedded versions do well, presumably because they have been deliberately designed to suit laptops. (Another good reason to recommend LinuxMint 4.0 - Daryna !)
Edit PS - Mint5 - Elyssa is also shaping up well, being 'leaner and meaner' than 'the Heron', with a more helpful interpretation of Gparted, displaying both Linux AND Windows partition labels.

RE: Partition Editing

wasbit — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:07:38 GMT

I've just read my previous post and it seems as is I'm trying to tell you what should and shouldn't be in this thread and that was not my intention.

I also shouldn't try to be ultracrepidarian (give an opinion beyond the scope of my knowledge) especially as I wouldn't attempt to partition someone elses hard drive unless it was empty.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:29:44 GMT

Partition Editing is the title of this thread, not Partition Imaging, but I will
always try to help folk with related problems.

I am not alone in reporting limitations for Partition Magic (or other DOS/Win
utilities) when it comes to sharing drives with Linux, if only for data exchange.

Linux-based tools seem to have been making more of an effort to be DOS/Win
compatible, in the form of better versions of Gparted or its inclusion on other
LiveCDs, compilations or distros, some better than others, whilst to be kind,
some profit-making DOS/Win products seem content to 'rest on their laurels'.

(I also see little point in pursuing limited version trial products that mandate
registration for SPAM purposes, or payment to provide full functionality.)

Although unsupported open source or free software can be much worse, some
can be much better. Partition editing seems to be going that way, with Gparted
variants etc getting better all the time, now overtaking PartionMagic for DOS/Win
handling, let alone Linux preparation.

Having more than one tool can overcome specific machine problems, but a small
set of 'gooduns', not a large array of bad or poor products.

I live in hope of a single better solution, but trying PartEdMagic 1.9/1.8 and then
Gparted 0.3.3.0, in that order, means that it's been a year since I've used Partition
Magic or other non-free software, although Gparted has its own 'quirks'.

RE: Partition Editing

wasbit — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:14:00 GMT

Hi Bruce,

Oops, Testdisk shouldn't be in that list. I copied it quickly (in the early hours) without checking.
Also Partition resizer = http://www.zeleps.com.

I've had a dabble (good technical term) with them all. Any problems were down to me rather than incompatibility (see my sig for system specs - which has also included Athlon XPs)

On the odd occasion that I want to have a play with partitions (rather than need to), I use Partition Magic 7 because I happen to have it (I had a mate who bought all the latest programmes and gave me his old versions).

This isn't the place to get into a discussion about the definition of freeware but I have just been through each of the links in the list and they all offer the named programme free for personal use. However I stand to be corrected if I've misunderstood.

Acronis & Paragon spring to mind as companies that have allowed some of their older programmes to be used for free (classed as register-ware so use an old but valid email address to get the serial number).

The discussion seems to be moving from partitioning to backup to imaging, which although inter-related should be kept seperate so that the readers are not confused.

Windows partitioning & using Linux to partition in Windows is also a completely different discussion from Linux partitioning and should be kept seperate to avoid confusion.

I have edited & updated previously posted lists :
Freeware/Shareware sticky - http://forum.micromart.co.uk/Topic74056-7-1.aspx
Post# 191217 - Backup, Clone & Imaging software
Post# 191218 - Boot utilities freeware
Post# 191221 - File repair & recovery

That should give you something to get you teeth into :).

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:25:41 GMT

Hi wasbit

An interesting but not comprehensive list, excluding Spanish GAG and DriveImageXML
(which looked promising, but has been reported to not work on a number of PCs).
Your list includes some old utilities that simply don't work on modern PCs, turn out
to have 'strings attached' (eg shareware, not genuinely FREE), are promising but
don't work yet or are very complicated to actually create and set up (like UBCD4Win).

Gparted goes on in its own right, but later version LiveCDs have been over-complicated
with additions and don't work on all hardware, even refusing to boot.
(The old version 0.3.3.0, is probably the simplest but even it doesn't like all PCs.)

The PartedMagic compilation is the best, if it likes the PC in question, including a useful
array of other utilities like Thunar FileManager, MountUtility, a Screen capture that works
(a lot don't), even a copy of TestDisk that I have yet to fully explore.
(It doesn't include, as some folk have claimed, a copy of PartImage, which is still really
at the command-line level, and not easy to use.)

It's possible that something on your list will make a breakthrough and also be easy to use.

It's supposed to include DriveImageXML and SelfImage, so I shall struggle with BartPE
creation of UBCD4win, (for Partition Imaging, not Editing)
but SelfImage-121 is currently the easiest to use and actually works for Linux.
(Whilst my trusty Ghost2003 utility diskette still works for Windows, even WinVista.)

However can you personally recommend any specific utility, having used it in anger ?

RE: Partition Editing

wasbit — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:22:59 GMT

Some more :

Partition Tools:

BootPart - http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm
Cute PM - http://www.cutepm.com/
DiskImage - http://www.dubaron.com/diskimage/
GParted - http://gparted.sourceforge.net
PartImage - http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page
Parted Magic - http://www.partedmagic.com/
Partition Is Not Ghost (PING) - http://ping.windowsdream.com/
Partition Logic - http://partitionlogic.org.uk/
Partition Saving - http://www.partition-saving.com/
Partition Recovery Bootdisk - http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
Partition Resizer - http://www.zeleps.com/
Ranish Partition Manager - http://www.ranish.com/part/
SwissKnife - http://www.compuapps.com/Download/swissknife/swissknife.htm

Edit : corrected Partition Resizer web address and removed Test Disk from list.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 00:10:26 GMT

Hi Computer Dave

Glad to hear that you made it in the end.

At one stage I had six OSs (three different Linuxes) spread across two physical drives,
but now rely on WinXP-hosted SelfImage-121 to create a library of Linux images that
I can restore to the single Linux 10GiB primary+1GiB swap as the fancy takes me.

(A BartPE CD version of SelfImage takes about three times as long to create or restore)

RE: Partition Editing

Computer Dave — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:30:31 GMT

Thanks Bruce R - just to let you know I got there in the end. I've just re-installed Ubuntu again this afternoon (didn't have to actually - I cocked up the entry in GRUB) as I wanted PC Linux OS 2007 on as well. I've go no clue about Linux but I'm learning as I go VERY SLOWLY. Some by Googling with the helpful community and the other a bit of guesswork - I had to guess that Ubuntu was located h(0,4).

I've spent 4 hours trying to get them to boot up in GRUB only for me to balls it up as I copied some additional code (to do with ACPI and VGA settings) from the PCLinuxOS entry and Ubnuntu just froze with the cursor! and why the hell does PCLinuxOS not save the changes when you want to change the system boot - even in root it kept going back to a default -ARRGGGGHHH. Thank goodness for Redo MBR ;) I finally got it all working at long last. I also have Win 2k and Win XP on there as well - so 4 OSes!

Good thing I have patience :)

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:45:30 GMT

OK - critical stage advice.

After engaging 'Manual', if Freespace doesn't show, delete the intended main space and then create 'New' partition which needs to have its 'Format' check box ticked. (NB always wait for re-scanning to complete before going on)

Highlight the main Linux partition, 'Edit Partition' and select / (forward slash) to define as root 'Mount point'.

The next stage may offer to migrate settings etc, but just click on 'Forward' to define UserName, Password and Network Name.

(On the 'Ready to install' window, the 'Advanced' button would prevent automatic search and GRUB menu/bootloader set up.)

RE: Partition Editing

Computer Dave — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:20:23 GMT

Thanks to you both...I will delete all existing ext2 and swap partitions (created using PM8) and do a manual setup with fresh partitions in Ubuntu tonight :D

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:19:52 GMT

Yes, the Manual method does have some quirks, the most obvious being
that displayed info doesn't match GParted info, so I'd better write it up.

Edit PS - Of course there is that old problem, that you need an active,
fast Internet connection when installing, so that the UK mirror can be
consulted for machine-specific info, otherwise it stalls.
(So busy-time or maintenance time avoidance can be important.)

RE: Partition Editing

Jason — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:15:07 GMT

My install simply refused to get beyond 15% until I chose Guided. I'm sure Manual must work in some circumstances, but it didn't work in mine.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:06:26 GMT

Hi Jason

Although Computer Dave set up old ext2 instead of ext3, you are right that it's
better to get the Ubuntu Partitioner to do a fresh ext3 format, but you don't have
to select 'Guided' mode to ensure that and there are conscious decision advantages
to 'Manual' mode installation.

Edit PS - Sounds like I need to write up 'Ubuntu 7.10 - Manual Install'.
(It seems to avoid a lot of other problems that folk have had.)

RE: Partition Editing

Jason — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:55:52 GMT

I had exactly the same issue with installing Ubuntu 7.10 -- stalling at 15%. The answer is to remove your manually setup partitions and just leave a bunch of unallocated space on the disk. Then choose the "Guided" option at partitioning time. Let Ubuntu do all the work. As soon as I went this route I had no trouble at all. Like you, I thought that setting up my partitions manually beforehand would make things easier, but it was actually a mistake.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:13:46 GMT

Hi Computer Dave

PowerQuest was a great innovator, but ran into problems creating DriveImage,
which is what Symantec/Norton bought them for, re-badging it as the new Ghost
(quite different to Ghost2003, which they had to go on including for folk like the FBI).

I started with PM3.0, found that PM4.0 was better, and like you ended up with PM8.0

I now prefer PartEdMagic 1.9, PartEdmagic 1.8 or GPartEd0.3.3.0 LiveCDs, tried in that order.
Where it works, PartEdMagic 1.9's GParted version 0.3.4 more clearly illustrates Linux versus
FAT/NTFS etc filesystems nomenclature, especially if the other CD utilities are used.

Regarding Ubuntu installation, I shunt WinXP 10GiB down the drive, create a 1GiB Linux-Swap
logical drive and then use Partitioner Manual mode to create my ext3 main Linux installation.
There are some other tips that I can provide if you are interested, but other OSs are
automatically searched for and a GRUB selection menu/bootloader is then set up.
That menu can then be easily edited for start-up preference and choices text.

The attached GParted image of two hard drives in my [A] rig illustrates that I can choose
Gutsy Gibbon, WinXPonline, WinXPoffline or WinVista for a hard-drive session.

I will remove the attachment in a day or two, but let me know if you need more info.

RE: Partition Editing

Computer Dave — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:20:49 GMT

I've used PartitionMagic since version 5 which was given away free years ago...got the hang of it with Windows 9X family...then back in 2002 I needed XP support so I purchased PartitionMagic 7 and believe it or not it was this software that really got me into understanding OSes, File Systems and Partitions - the manual was very good but XP support was a bit basic. I have version 8 (before Symantec purchased PowerQuest). Shame it hasn't been updated and I don't think Symantec support it in the UK anymore.

I do agree that PartitionMagic is not perfect but its has been very reliable for me (for Windows) and I've never had any problems or lost data. I would avoid DriveMapper tho which just makes matters worse with drive letters.

BruceR will be pleased to hear that I downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 days ago and ran the live CD...I did try to install it to my hard drive alongside Windows and manually edited the partitions (I did set them up in PM8 as ext2 and swap) - however I do not want to delete my Windows (multi-boot) so should I select 'do not use' in the file system? - Ubuntu sees them as /hda/media/something (can't remember)...problem after that was it stalled at 15% and did nothing. I closed it and rebooted and everything was intact. I'm a Linux newbie and really do want to use it...mainly as something new to explore.

Also does Ubuntu install a bootloader? (i.e. so I can choose my OS form a list). I remember PCLinuxOS having this and it was mostly automatic. I was quite impressed with the usability of Ubuntu having used PCLinuxOS before. Thank you.

RE: Partition Editing

Bruce R — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 01:11:12 GMT

Hi gn2

Yes, that's where FREE PartEdMagic's GPartEd is so much better and even works well with other filesystems. It also includes some other useful Linux utitilities, to mount other drives and thereby save screenpics.

RE: Partition Editing

gn2 — Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:18:00 GMT

Partition Magic is good for Fat32 and NTFS, but for ext2/3 and Linux swap it is all but useless.

Partition Editing

Bruce R — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 12:26:45 GMT

Why isn't there a perfect, reliable drive partition editor ?
(Tools like 'PartitionMagic' can fail to work.)

Designed by PowerQuest, PartitionMagic was re-badged by Symantec/Norton.
Good as its design was, it couldn't be tested against every possible make of
drive, BIOS, Operating or File System or combination thereof, so it was
bound to fail one day.

There are other, operating system-embedded tools, like Windows XP Disk
Management (Control Panel, Administrative Tools, Computer Management),
but they are limited. The most popular alternative tool has been Linux Gnome
Partition Editor or GParted, in LiveCD form.
Progressively revised and issued on stand-alone LiveCDs using different Linux
kernels, specific versions have failed to perform reliably for specific hardware.

However, some good news. The recent PartEdMagic 2.2 LiveCD seems to work
well on many different machines, as a result of using a 2.6-series Linux kernel.
By default it loads into RAM, ejects the CD and continues working, promptly
displaying 'drive' icons for all detected partitions with dual Linux/Windows labels.
Double-clicking them invokes Windows Explorer-like Thunar File Manager for file
recovery, whilst its Gparted 0.3.7 also has dual labeling and very comprehensive
partition editing. There is also a screen capture and save to zip file capability,
plus a recent copy of a character-graphics command-line PartImage.
[url]http://partedmagic.com/wiki/PartedMagic.php?n=PartedMagic.Downloads[/url]
(Free - but donations welcomed.)
All-in-all, a great tool that can even fit on an 8cm mini-CD !

(Re-Edited from thread dialogs and more recent experience - 19th July 2008.)